FASHIONABLE NOC ANON MAFIA - Day 6 - Sun. Mar. 9 @ 2:00 EST

Burberry, what message did you receive when you tried to kill me?

3 possibilities

1) Burberry is lying
2) Zara is lying
3) Something prevented or redirected Zara's roleblock

~Zara: did you know for certain the mechanics of a roleblock against an X-shot, prior to Lucifer being asked?

~Prada how is that relevant?

I received no message. Since my role isn’t an investigative role I wouldn’t get a “No Result” message or anything like I would get if I was a roleblocked inspector.

A note on “me vs Zara”: First of all, I’d rather not look at it in a “it’s either her or me” standpoint, as we saw when Louis and Ray were both town. Yes, Alex and Valentino weren’t both town, but to a lot of people in the game Valentino was a strong town read, and not just because of claim.

In response to this post, I am not trying to back up my claim, I’m saying Zara’s reasoning that if I were town I would have modified my claim is incorrect because I would have claimed correctly in the first place.

Of course I could just be mafia and claiming my kills as the mafia faction’s, but my claim wasn’t at a time to save myself. I was pretty sure I was going to be lynched and so I was going to get out all information regarding my role before I went under. I’m just really tired of people trying to think I’m trying to be town only because I claimed.

Now for the case on Prada.

Their first serious vote had poor justification as they never bothered to explain how Hermes had been “careless” and why that makes that scummy.

I remember asking her about the Dior vote and all I got was this response of, “Oh, I was bored.” This strikes me as more careless than the original Hermes had ever been.

Play during Day 2 and Day 3 was alright, mostly because Ray was just drawing so much suspicion. This is a fairly notable post though. I caught that Versace was a doublevoter early on and I assume other people had too but I didn’t want to point it out because I didn’t want mafia to nightkill him. I’m not actually sure how to read it because Versace’s double vote was extremely obvious ( a few vote counts where he was the only vote on someone and it counted as 2) but no one pointed it out until this post here. Side note: they promised reads and didn’t deliver.

Their angle on Valentino before the redirector speculation is town, but their recent posting seems really desperate.

This just looks like fluff. Because we’re coming up on night 6, whether or not the mafia can kill only on even nights probably means there’s going to be a kill anyways because a regular mafia has a kill every night. What you should really be looking forward to is Night 7.

Vote on Jimmy is actually something I missed. Jimmy is voting Valentino…based on Valentino’s results. I see an explanation from him here but I don’t know what he was going for there…Prada wasn’t using Valentino’s results to incriminate Valentino when she voted him.

I have no idea why Prada chooses to vote me following Zara’s long post + vote on me. Further evidence of the willingness to get on any lynch that isn’t hers. This last post about me seems to lean in favor of me though.

I really thought I would find more, but going through her ISO there were some sparse segments of activity and prod dodging. Plus the fact that apparently my kill /did/ go through and I see no claim from a Town Doctor who protected Prada n4. Sure you can believe that Zara roleblocked me, as there’s no way to prove that I did use up a shot, but it’s precisely that which makes her role claim and my role claim very difficult to grasp.

Lucifer wrote:
[*]This game uses the following Night Action Resolution, or "priority". Simultaneous actions will both occur, and actions that combine these use the first priority:

Spoiler:

[/list]

Redirection has priority over roleblock. I think Zara was redirected and Zara and Burberry are both town.

If someone has an external scum case on Burberry they should present it

Also a warning: this discussion is straying dangerously close to PM quoting/excessive wording analysis. Don't push the PM analysis too far.

My post towards Burberry dealt a lot with theoreticals. In the case of kill discussion, this person killed this person on this night etc, that's purely going with the given story by Burberry assuming they were not lying. I have no clue and make no claim to know what's actually happened. My only goal in the post was to point out that Burberry's claim was extremely unlikely to be true.

With the whole Burberry would have modified their claim part, that was purely a theoretical situation in which Burberry was actually a normal Town CPR Doctor, and had fakeclaim a Town 3-Shot CPR Doctor to try and avoid scum kills. I wanted to rule that possibility out, or confirm it, as then Burberry's claim would remain un-disprovable by my action.

Something to note. I asked Burberry

Did you receive anything from the mod after your action

with the context of

on the issue of your kill against Prada

Burberry's response was

For the record I received no message when the day started.

Later on though, following my explanation of shot mechanics, Burberry has stated

A couple of days later, presumably at the end of the night, I was informed I had x shots left. In the case on the night I aimed for Prada, Lucifer told me I had 1 shot left.

These two statements appear to directly contradict each other. Note that the quoting I have taken here, while word for word correct, don't include the entirety of the sentence they were contained within. I personally didn't see how that affected what was said, but relevant posts are on page 3 and 5 for those who want to double check.

@Givenchy, I don't see how I could have made my claim against Burberry without being certain of it. That is to say, yes I was.

At the point when I would have needed to have been roleblocked for this to happen, keep in mind, was the night when this current Zara first subbed into the game. Meaning that, my slot had not yet contributed much of anything. Though it is certainly possible, I don't believe that somebody would have used a role like a redirect, which has so much potential for the gaining of knowledge, for the purpose of me, unless they believed I was scum making kills. On that however, I doubt somebody would continue to do that action after thinking about it; If I'm remembering correctly, at that point in the game, I had just been outed as having used an unknown action at night. If I were mafia making kills, since I would be quite likely to draw a tracker and other such information roles, it seems like that would be a key night to not have me make the kill. Just more speculation though. Moving on, even if we assume that I had been targeted by a redirector, keep in mind that a roleblock can't be the explanation for Burberry's action failing, and the redirector would have already gone on me. This means the only explanation for Burberry's kill failing would be three killers in the day, Burberry's, one to counter-act Burberry's, and one to actually cause a death, or another doctor going on Prada, which, given other roles, would make Prada very likely scum. So make of this what you will. I'm personally applying Occam's Razor for the moment.

Also, so far I've been mainly thinking about this game in terms of night actions, thought I probably won't post again in any length for a while, future posts will hopefully have me analyzing people's words and choices during the day in more detail.

Zara: how were you so certain without asking the mod?

~Marchesa: What leads you to believe that Zara was redirected and both are town? Seems way too speculative of a theory to hold with any confidence to me.

@Givenchy, when asking the mod privately at a much earlier date about how my role was affected by other roles and how other roles affected mine I was given the information. So I got it from the mod as well, just before it was publicly asked.

When you asked me whether I received any messages from the mod I thought you were looking for evidence such as "Your target was protected!" or "Your target evaded your kill!" or anything of the sort. The "You have 1 shot left" message I didn't consider to be related to the Prada kill failing because I felt it was a normal procession of being a role which used an x-shot action. For anyone who wants to check this I'll link it myself here because the pages do have a lot of text in them.

I don't know if another doctor on Prada would save them from my CPR Doctor ability killing them. Seems a bit too specific, but Lucifer, can you answer?

I think another explanation for your roleblock not going through to me is a roleblocker on yourself.

I might normally believe you on the day messaging point, except for the fact that you used the phrasing "I received no message when the day started" when many other wordings could have been used, especially one such as "I received no message regarding why my action failed" would seem so much more natural then your given response in the event that a message was received, even it said message didn't have relevance to the question asked.

@Givenchy It's largely a gut thing and I was townreading so maybe I'm conf. biasing.

I think a town v town situation is entirely plausible (the roleblock on Zara theory Burberry brought up seems more likely than a redirect) and that if we lynch one of these 2 today, let's not auto lynch the other tomorrow as there are likely 3/4 scum left

Unvote

I believed Zara at first that a roleblock wouldn't save the charge, but I guess that isn't the case.

For Zara to try to roleblock Burberry but Burberry still use their action, Zara could have been redirected or roleblocked. The thing with the possible redirector in the Ray/Louis situation though was that if Louis's action was redirected, we don't know who it was redirected to. So I was wondering if there was someone that got roleblocked last night. If we can rule out the possibility of a redirector, we'll at least know that Alex actually inspected the neighbours.

Vote Jimmy Choo
because this is my best scum read atm.

That could be redundant though if one of the neighbours is scum who inspects as town so that won't entirely clean the neighbours

Oh shit this is going to be one of those games where everybody thinks the scum are town and the town are scum and then the scum completely control the towns thinking and get the town into a ton of bad situations and overall kill of a huge portion of the town and meanwhile all the town who could do something about it are pitted against each other and all the townies who don't give a fuck don't give a fuck and then after a few days of that the town becomes completely demoralized and even those who gave a fuck before stop giving a fuck and the scum basically walk all over the town and with those town who would stand out all gone get an even stronger hold over the town until it's basically a countdown to when the town loses because the only people who care are the scum until finally in/near lylo who the scum are becomes blatantly obvious to an outside observer but those in the game are too caught up on preconceived beliefs they're held throughout the rest of the game or simply don't give a fuck at all and then scum win and the thread basically dies after one or two ggs from the scum cause people simply don't care.

I hate games like that.

I stopped giving a fuck halfway through your post.



Zara what do you think of Prada?

I almost want to vote Zara based on his last post.

@Marchesa, why do you believe that there is a redirector somewhere in the game?

I said the first sentence of my above post was a joke in a spoiler tag, it's not appearing when I'm not logged in so just restating that.

@Bulgari, I was townreading both Zara and Burberry and I want people to bare in mind that there's a possibility they're both town if Zara's roleblock was redirected or roleblocked

Prada is oppurtinistic. Why did they choose today to be like: "Oh yeah, Jimmy is scummy looking." It is like they didn't see my other posts which the only content was me saying Jimmy was scum.

Except for when I asked you at the start of the day why you thought Jimmy was scum and you never responded. If I've been ignoring your posts, it's because it is hard to take you seriously when you are a VT with no reasoning behind your reads.

Well okay, deadline's in ~5 hours and we kinda need a lynch. Not really a huge fan of either lynch, but clearly there is some misinformation somewhere, so I'm leaning more toward lynching Burberry. I was townreading him for the longest time, but Valentino's flip kinda started make me rethink how well I was reading the game.

Vote Burberry

Prada, why create a wagon with no realistic chance of happening so close to deadline?